Summarily Deleted from the K-WU Pub

[Rich Douglas]

Well, that didn't take long! I would encourage anyone to go to K-WU's board and see if I said anything at all that would normally get someone booted from a discussion board. They didn't even have the courtesy to notify me, nor did they post anything on the board. They just eliminated my account. Gotta love it.

Now, to go open another account....

[Rich Douglas]

I created a new account and called them on it:

http://vsu.kw.edu/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001255.html

How long until that's deleted?

[Bruce]

I've been aware of the KW Pub for quite awhile, and it was always humorous (and a bit sad) to see the numerous threads of KW students congratulating each other and attempting to rationalize their poor decisions. It used to be rare that a KW detractor posted there, but now that there are a few, the response seems to be banning them w/o warning or notice. Makes you wonder who is making these decisions, and for what reasons.

In spite of having a very pro-RA tilt, I'm proud of the fact that it's very, very rare that we ban anyone here, and never for raising legitimate questions about a school. The number one reason we delete an account is for creating multiple logins, and even then we leave what we believe is the main account of the user (assuming they've abided by the rest of the TOS).


Bruce

[Bill Huffman]

I'm not surprised that they booted you. I am surprised that it took as long as it did. What posts did they delete of yours?

They booted me off for the same sort of thing, pointing out some truth about their operation. From my point of view, the Pub seems to be little more than a tool that K-W uses as an extended marketing tool. A tool to try and indoctrinate students into the proper mill-speak. (If you wonder what I mean by mill-speak then just read some of RJT's posts, confusing
licensing with accreditation,
employer reimbursement with employer acceptance,
RA with monopoly or
credit for life experience with distance learning.)

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[bgossett]

In responding to Rich's "Banned" post on the Pub, the AED spammer, using his Samia Newton login, signs his post "Rick". Rick is one of the other logins he created Saturday night.

http://vsu.kw.edu/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001255.html

[bgossett]

He caught the mistake, but I have the original mirrored.

[Richard A. Suhar PE CMfgE]

As I stated in Randy's post about beng banned, Rule number 6 will get you "Excused" everytime. Their server, their rules. I am sure this board is no different, just more patient. :-)

"However, do not post anything that is libelous, abusive or hateful, an invasion of anyone's privacy, harmful to other users, or harmful to the educational goals of Kennedy-Western University. "

You gatta admit, anything that would detract people from enrolling or continuing on can certainly be precieved as harmful to their goals.

"Free speech" to a degree...

Regards,

Dick

Originally posted by Rich Douglas
Well, that didn't take long! I would encourage anyone to go to K-WU's board and see if I said anything at all that would normally get someone booted from a discussion board. They didn't even have the courtesy to notify me, nor did they post anything on the board. They just eliminated my account. Gotta love it.

Now, to go open another account....

[Richard A. Suhar PE CMfgE]

Randy wasn't the only one "excused" when he replied to Linda. Her account was terminated also.

Dick

[Bill Huffman]

Originally posted by bgossett
In responding to Rich's "Banned" post on the Pub, the AED spammer, using his Samia Newton login, signs his post "Rick". Rick is one of the other logins he created Saturday night.

http://vsu.kw.edu/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001255.html

Is this further indication that the a.e.d. spamming campaign might somehow be tied to K-W?

[Bill Huffman]

Originally posted by Richard A. Suhar PE CMfgE
You gatta admit, anything that would detract people from enrolling or continuing on can certainly be precieved as harmful to their goals.

"Free speech" to a degree...

This is very true.

K-W wants it to appear that they embrace free speech. Similar to how they want to appear to review work experience credits with academic rigor. However, they apparently recognize that their shady operation can't withstand the full scrutiny of unbridled truth. They apparently create new accounts to carry out personal attacks against Rich and to thank the "moderators" for banning Rich.

The more you see how this place works, the more it looks like a degree mill.

[Rich Douglas]

I'm not going to call K-WU a degree mill, but nor am I going to argue with those who do.

I find it amazing that the a.e.d. spammer knew I was posting on "The Pub." It happened awfully quickly, as if he was already there. How about that?

I find it interesting that he's able to post numerous times using the language he does, all with nothing more than personal attacks not very well founded in facts. But it's my account that gets nixed. It's as if K-WU supported his activities. But how could that be?

Clearly, with or without the a.e.d. spammer's involvement, K-WU uses "The Pub" for a marketing device. Why else would they permit public access--posting, even? The problem is with someone coming in and refuting the party line. But not too much of a problem; you just snuff out his account and remove his posts. This isn't censorship, it's false advertising. They're using the forum to promote the idea that they're an online university, but that's pretty transparent.

Has anyone read the quality of the posts there? You seem to have earnest and honest people--for the most part--who don't seem to have any business pursuing their degrees. I can't describe it as well as it can be experienced.

K-WU bachelor's degrees are sold, not earned. (I was surprised by the preponderance of undergraduate customers; I think it's their core business.) And graduate customers don't seem to be "into" their subjects when discussing them. "I just want to get my degree" is a comment lament. K-WU ought to translate that into Latin and use it for the watermark on the diplomas!

Just supposin': A disgruntled, former a.e.d.'er, gone over to the "dark side," hooking up with K-WU, and using it to both keep the crummy little school's name in various fora like this, and to exercise a little bit of animus towards some old adversaries. Naw.

(I just checked. They eliminated me again. I'll lob one more on there for good luck!)

There: http://vsu.kw.edu/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001257.html

That ought to get me banned for life...as if I'm not already.

(Edited to add link.)

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[Richard A. Suhar PE CMfgE]

Originally posted by Bill Huffman


Is this further indication that the a.e.d. spamming campaign might somehow be tied to K-W?

Well Bill maybe it is and Rich Douglas is the advanced raid into their turf to precipitate a spam war with this board. Time will tell.

Regards,

Dick

[Rich Douglas]

Originally posted by Richard A. Suhar PE CMfgE


Well Bill maybe it is and Rich Douglas is the advanced raid into their turf to precipitate a spam war with this board. Time will tell.

Regards,

Dick

Dick:

Are you suggesting that I am initiating a "spam war" at The Pub? Outside of responding to the spammer--whose immediate reaction to my posts makes me wonder how he even knew I posted there--my posts were either providing assistance (statistical software, for example), or contained comments about the utility of unaccredited degrees.

BTW, I did not in any way violate their TOS. I logged in as me. I never used inflammatory or vulgar language, even when "attacked" by the multiple guises of the spammer. I didn't even violate K-WU's catch-all, because my comments could in no way interfere with K-WU's "educational mission." Oh, their business may or may not be damaged, but that's not what the language says. It sounds like it was put there to prevent people from subverting academic processes (like cheating, for example).

It's their board; they can include or exclude anyone they want. But their actions say a lot about the academic nature of their operation, and none of that is good.

My opinion: K-WU is not a university. Sorry. It is a business posing as one. When one recognized educational authority in turn recognizes K-WU and its degrees, then I'll go along.

BTW: All of the testimonials in the world about how people used their K-WU degrees doesn't change that. It's as if we determined who became a physician by popular vote. A customer of K-WU is, typically, not in a position to make that determination. Education authorities are. And a license by the State of Wyoming doesn't exactly cut it. That's the same amount of authority--and evalution--enjoyed by Columbia State, Southwestern, Southland, Thomas A. Edison (the degree mill, not TESC), and others shut down by federal authorities while being properly licensed. Again, I'm not talking about neither the quality of the instruction, nor the quality of the students. I'm talking about the recognition of the degree. Just because some people are able to slip their K-WU degrees past some employers doesn't make it a university. And when you add in the questions about its academics, curricula, and its moving license, well, one has a lot to consider.

(They just killed my account again. That's enough. Clearly, I don't fit the business model. Bill's right. It IS a degree mill.)

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[Bill Huffman]

Originally posted by Richard A. Suhar PE CMfgE
Well Bill maybe it is and Rich Douglas is the advanced raid into their turf to precipitate a spam war with this board. Time will tell.

Dick, I enjoy your posts far too much. It can't be healthy. :-)

Indeed, time will tell if there's a new onslaught but they've already made more than a few raids here. (Note, I'm referring to the a.e.d. spammers here. Their possible connection to K-W while interesting is apparently tenuous.) IIRC, the raids have included denial of service attacks and vicious attacks on the website supplier that would probably also be deemed illegal. The people speaking out against degree mills and this forum have upset some very belligerent and unsavory type folks that can apparently afford to hire Internet trolls/shills to try to bury the truth under spam and libel.

Have fun,
Bill

[Richard A. Suhar PE CMfgE]

Originally posted by Rich Douglas


Dick:

Are you suggesting that I am initiating a "spam war" at The Pub? Outside of responding to the spammer--whose immediate reaction to my posts makes me wonder how he even knew I posted there--my posts were either providing assistance (statistical software, for example), or contained comments about the utility of unaccredited degrees.

Edit Edit..

No Rich, I am not suggesting a "spam war" in or from the Pub. I am just advancing Bill's supposition. If the trolls actually reside on the KW Server and they are indeed KW employees, than it could be considered a foray on to their home turf. I really don't care to see any fora go through these types of activities.

The Rule #6 I copied in a previuos post outlines the TOS. This information resides on the student web pages and I don't know if it appears on the public KW page. You clearly did not advance the educational goals of the organization in accordance with Rule #6.


Regards,

Dick

[Rich Douglas]

Originally posted by Richard A. Suhar PE CMfgE



The Rule #6 I copied in a previuos post outlines the TOS. This information resides on the student web pages and I don't know if it appears on the public KW page. You clearly did not advance the educational goals of the organization in accordance with Rule #6.


Regards,

Dick

But you don't get booted for violating the TOS because you fail to advance the educational goals of KW-U. As you cited on this board, it says:

However, do not post anything that is libelous, abusive or hateful, an invasion of anyone's privacy, harmful to other users, or harmful to the educational goals of Kennedy-Western University. (Emphasis added.)

It isn't failing to advance their educational goals that is a violation. It is the harming of them. How could someone's words do that?

Is questioning, even criticizing, the utility of the school's degrees "harmful" to their educational goals? In what way? One could even argue that it HELPS their educational goals. After all, if I offer specious arguments, doesn't that further validate their operation? And if I'm right, doesn't that give them cause to improve their school? Either way, it isn't educational goals that are hampered potentially. It is their business goals that might be threatened. (Although by what, I don't know. They seem to be pretty good at raking in the cash all these years despite quite a bit of criticism and more than one "move.")

No, I didn't violate the TOS. I violated their unwritten--but understool--rules about political correctness regarding K-WU. I would expect that in any forum at a business. But not at a university. And not on a forum open to the public.

[Rich Douglas]

BTW, I want to thank and commend Dr. Suhar for his thorough and quite civil disagreement--and sometimes agreement, too. I read many of his posts on The Pub, and they seemed quite helpful to posters there.

When Colleen, Dick, Neil, and others with degrees from unaccredited schools stick to the issues, acknowledge the facts, etc., it makes the points they raise so much more persuasive, and demonstrates there are two sides to everything.

Thanks again.

[bgossett]

Originally posted by Bill Huffman


Is this further indication that the a.e.d. spamming campaign might somehow be tied to K-W?

More likely, I believe, is that it is simply the opportunity du jour. The ROI at AED no longer makes it worth the time, DistanceDegree.net was worked with some successes until they started banning him, and he's enjoyed a small run at About.com. The latter will undoubtedly end when the new moderator takes charge.

[bgossett]

Originally posted by Bill Huffman
The people speaking out against degree mills and this forum have upset some very belligerent and unsavory type folks that can apparently afford to hire Internet trolls/shills to try to bury the truth under spam and libel.

When, or if, the final chapter is ever written to this nearly two year old saga, I'm convinced that that assessment will be the defining one.

[Bruce]

Well, at least we got a free plug from one of the KW cheerleaders. The ironic thing is that if she actually spent any time here, she probably would never have enrolled in KW.


Bruce