Time mag. on Home Schooling

[Bill Highsmith]

I hope this isn't redundant; no hits on a search.

The Aug. 27 issue of Time did an interesting if not slightly bipolar story on home schooling, entitled: Is Home Schooling Good for America? They revealed many of the facts, such as the 80-point higher SAT scores that home schoolers get on average, their recruitment by ivy league schools, their general success, the rapid growth of home schooling, the diffusion of home schooling into all sectors of society (the survey showed that 38% of home schoolers participated for religious reasons now).

However, Time could not help themselves; they appended many facts with speculative and in some cases illogical retorts. For example:

p. 48--a discussion about Jefferson's vision of public schools sustaining democracy followed by an interesing admission: "Home schooling may turn out better students, but does it create better citizens?"

p. 48--home schooling is a threat to public schooling because it sucks (federal) money out of public schools. In fact, the parents of the home schoolers still pay the same taxes even though they don't use the public services; fewer students, less cost to the state. (There was some coverage of home schoolers taking a few classes for the social skills.)

p. ?--Along those lines, there was bit about how it will be harder to pass property tax increases because of home schooling. (However, elsewhere, they go on to show that home schooling amounts to less than 2% of the population. In my view, the educational labor unions are so vehemently opposed to home schooling that it serves as a political scaffold for them on property tax and bond votes.

p. 50--a bit about how home schoolers benefit from their parents' dedication. "But imagine what American public education would look like if parents who currently home school flooded their local schools with all that mighty dedication instead." (All 1.7% of them. What if the other 98.3% did just a tiny bit?)

p. 49-50--Time tells of a mother of two home-schooled daughters who thinks that they will be better citizens because they've learned to care for each other (being together), rather than being separated at public school. Time: "But will that make them better citizens or just better siblings?"

p. 52--A psychotherapist who studied publicly schooled and home-schooled students: "He found that home schoolers were generally more patient and less competitive. They tended to introduce themselves to one another more; they didn't fight as much. And the home schoolers were much more prone to exchange addresses and phone numbers. In short, the behaved like miniature adults." Time: "Which is great, unless you believe that kids should be kids befor they are adults. (Like more fighting, drugs, vandalism...kid stuff.)

Despite the above, the article was very positive about home schooling because, to their credit (there were a lot of contributors to the article), the statistical facts were not hidden and the examples given were of dedicated parents and successful children. It was refreshing compared to the hack jobs I've seen that paint the movement as some sort of NAZI revival.

[Gary Rients]

Originally posted by Bill Highsmith:
p. 48--home schooling is a threat to public schooling because it sucks (federal) money out of public schools. In fact, the parents of the home schoolers still pay the same taxes even though they don't use the public services; fewer students, less cost to the state. (There was some coverage of home schoolers taking a few classes for the social skills.)

I think what they're getting at is that local schools receive funds based upon their "head count", so if they have fewer students signed up then their gross budget is lower. It's the same reason that a lot of school admistrators resent homeschoolers. It doesn't seem to be a point of view that's founded in any sort of intelligent reasoning.

In my experience, most people who have negative feelings about homeschooling families seem to have developed this resentment based upon their own inability or unwillingness to provide the best education possible for their own families. Many people don't want to involve themselves with their children to this extent, especially when it may require sacrificing their own career opportunities, and they don't want to realize or admit that their decisions have negatively impacted the welfare of their children.

[Tom Head]

Originally posted by Gary Rients:
In my experience, most people who have negative feelings about homeschooling families seem to have developed this resentment based upon their own inability or unwillingness to provide the best education possible for their own families. Many people don't want to involve themselves with their children to this extent, especially when it may require sacrificing their own career opportunities, and they don't want to realize or admit that their decisions have negatively impacted the welfare of their children.

I hadn't thought about this, but now that you mention it, I can't think of a single case where someone who derided my homeschooling background had not considered it for their own children, but "decided against it." There are probably folks who oppose homeschooling for philosophical reasons, but I think you very well may be right--the more vocal critics are probably motivated by guilt.


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

[Tracy Gies]

The reasons public educators cite in an attempt to discredit homeschooling seem to shift every now and then. To many of them, the big scandal used to be that homeschooled children will be somehow less well socialized than publicly-schooled children. Some educators have, however, abandoned that argument. I notice that the Time article pointed to some evidence that suggests that homeschooled children may actually be more well socialized than publically-schooled children.

The reason why homeschooled children may be better socilialized lies, I think, in the fact that their parents are often better socialized. My wife and I have been homeschooling our kids since they were of school age, since about 1993 for our oldest, I guess. It's very common for homeschooling families to seek each other out and form cooperatives through which to share information, encouragement, and build bonds that assist in the socialization of their children--not only with other kids in a school setting, but with people of all ages in many different settings. Often, this socialization is neither structured nor specifically intented to be for the children's benefit. That, in my opinion, is real socialization. (Now, if only college professors and hiring managers would concede that working adults who earn degrees non-traditionally are perhaps more well socialized for the work setting than traditionally schooled recent college graduates. What bearing should classroom socialization have on hiring decisions anyway? The comments from former employers regarding how well a specific job candidate works with others should have far more bearing on a hiring decision than should the question of whether or not the candidate has been "socialized" in a traditional classroom setting, and by a professor no less.)

At any rate, according to the Time article, educators now wonder if homeschooled children will make good citizens. Perhaps these educators should do a little research and look into some of the most popular homeschool cirucula. They would see that the advancement of good citizenship is a common theme among them. These educators should also look into the homeschool movement itself. The promotion of good citizenship is one of the core values espoused by many individual homeschoolers as well as by homeschool groups.

In an ironic twist, a great many homeschoolers themselves question the ability of the public schools to turn out good citizens. While acknowledging that good citizenship is difficult to define for everyone, and that it entails more than pledging allegiance to the flag and doing community service, homeschoolers wonder how the public schools can instill the practices of good citizenship while de-empahsizing (and, at least with regards to the pledge, outrightly rejecting) these very basic acts of good citizens.

Furthermore, it is my opinion that closely studying the papers which document the founding of our country, and which regulate the conduct of its government to this day, is the key to forming a desire to be a good citizen the in first place. It seems to me that, if schools would seek to mold good citizens, teachers should at least consider rejecting the NEA's bid to discredit our nation's founders, just as they should reject attempts to color our nation's history to favor the misguided notion that our nation was founded for the benefit of a few wealthy land owners. None of these concepts is true, and none have at their core the desire plant the seed of good citizenship.

Here many public school officials will actually ask themselves this question: "You mean we should want our children to be good citizens?" You see, Time apparently does not know that the issue of good citizenship has become rather pase to public educators.
Under the current state of affairs, I don't think the public schools could even begin to piece together a curriculum to teach good citizenship.

In fact, I fear that the situation is worse now than ever before. Are publically-schooled children asked to read the Declaration of Independence, for example? It is my opinion that the Declaration is of singular importance in defining what America stands for, and is the best source document one can use to begin to define what good citizenship is. While the Constitution defines what powers the government will and will not have, the Declaration of Independence declared to the world that America would be a nation that strives for justice, peace, and liberity, for the benefit of not just a few, but of the whole of the nation. The Declaration gives specific examples of injustice and demands remedies for them. Had King George been so inclined, it could have sparked dialogue and debate, eventually leading to a resolution of the problem. But, then again, those are democratic principles, and King George was not so inclined to engage the colonialists in any sort of participatory form of government.

I didn't understand the full measure of the importance of the Declaration until I read it my oldest son one day while I was helping my wife with his citizenship studies. Now we read it at least once a year, on the Fourth of July, and generally more often than that.

I wouldn't say that there is no other way to instill in our children a desire for developing good citizenship skills then to make them say the pledge, encourage them to volunteer to help the community, and have them study the Declartion of Independence. But until public-school educators at least begin to think along the lines of how they can create a desire for good citizenship within the hearts and minds of American children of all races, religions, and backgrounds, they will never be able to match the desire and skill for good citizenship possessed by homeschooled children.

Tracy Gies<><

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[tcnixon]

Originally posted by Bill Highsmith:


p. 48--home schooling is a threat to public schooling because it sucks (federal) money out of public schools. In fact, the parents of the home schoolers still pay the same taxes even though they don't use the public services; fewer students, less cost to the state. (There was some coverage of home schoolers taking a few classes for the social skills.)

.

Did the article say federal money? Homeschooling does take some money from the state. For most states this is probably a rather insignificant amount.

A typical funding formula for state support of schools is based on ADA -- Average Daily Attendance. The more students you have, the more money you get.

Most of you know that I work in public education. I am also quite supportive of parents homeschooling their children. Many public school teachers are not particularly concerned at all with homeschooling (as long as the government isn't choosing to subsidize it). Why should I care how you have decided to educate your children (within reason; you probably should have to educate your child in some way)? As a matter of fact, taking children out of our crowded schools is not a bad thing!


Tom Nixon

[Tom Head]

Originally posted by Tracy Gies:
At any rate, according to the Time article, educators now wonder if homeschooled children will make good citizens. Perhaps these educators should do a little research and look into some of the most popular homeschool cirucula. They would see that the advancement of good citizenship is a common theme among them. These educators should also look into the homeschool movement itself. The promotion of good citizenship is one of the core values espoused by many individual homeschoolers as well as by homeschool groups.

Completely agreed--and I scratch my head at the idea that the primary unique function of a compulsory public education system is supposed to be to indoctrinate patriotism into children anyway. That is, among other things, a grossly un-American concept.

That said, I would like to take a moment to buffer the tone of my previous post--I said there are probably people who oppose homeschooling for philosophical reasons, and I meant to say that there are certainly such people, because I've met them. There are legitimate reasons not to homeschool one's children, and semi-defensible reasons to oppose it entirely. My only point was that every vehement critic of homeschooling I've ever met considered homeschooling, but decided against it--and then, apparently, developed a hangup about it.


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

[Tom Head]

Originally posted by tcnixon:
Most of you know that I work in public education. I am also quite supportive of parents homeschooling their children. Many public school teachers are not particularly concerned at all with homeschooling (as long as the government isn't choosing to subsidize it). Why should I care how you have decided to educate your children (within reason; you probably should have to educate your child in some way)? As a matter of fact, taking children out of our crowded schools is not a bad thing!

Understood on all fronts--and this is a good opportunity for me to point out that the vast majority of public educators I've met support homeschooling. And on the other side of the fence, a considerable percentage of homeschoolers (myself included) support the public school system.


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

[Bill Highsmith]

The movement of this thread to the off-topic forum doesn't concern me because I had a hard time deciding which forum to use.

I ultimately decided to put it in the main forum because some parents use DL resources in part and also use public courses to fill in gaps and contribute to their children's socialization (as the article points out).

I also think that home schooling barely fits into the category of distance learning by the above criteria and noting that there are several high school programs available at RA universities entirely by distance learning:
http://www.unl.edu/ishs/about.htm
http://isd.ou.edu/hinfo.htm

and many others.

[Gary Rients]

Originally posted by Bill Highsmith:
The movement of this thread to the off-topic forum doesn't concern me because I had a hard time deciding which forum to use.

It does bother me since I was writing a lengthy post at the time that it was moved, and my post was eaten as a result. I guess that'll teach me to write anything more than a few sentences directly in the text box.

[BillDayson]

I tend to support home schooling. But I'm also a congenital skeptic, and I don't believe in utopia. Everything has its pluses and minuses. So I have many questions and reservations.

So here are some comments, meant to provoke discussion:

Originally posted by Bill Highsmith:
...many of the facts, such as the 80-point higher SAT scores that home schoolers get on average, their recruitment by ivy league schools, their general success, the rapid growth of home schooling...

I think that there may be a contradiction implicit in those words.

A major reason that home schooling has been generally successful up until now is that it has been a small niche movement pursued by parents who tend to be well prepared and highly motivated. If homeschooling were generalized to the wider population (implied by the words "rapid growth"), would parents still have those advantages as teachers? Or would the quality of homeschooling graduates drop off rapidly if you tried to scale it up?

I also wonder if here aren't some selection effects here. Homeschooling graduates may claim higher average SATs and more prestige-college admissions, but what sample was used? All homeschool graduates or some subset of them? Did the less successful kids fall out somewhere along the line?

the diffusion of home schooling into all sectors of society (the survey showed that 38% of home schoolers participated for religious reasons now).

I am troubled by religious sects trying to segregate their kids from the general American population. For example, imagine Islamic homeschooling.

In this case, it's easy to see that there might be problems with children integrating effectively into the wider society around them. The whole *point* of their homeschooling is to teach them values that are significantly divergent from those of that wider society.

Well, I'm not a Christian, and I view Christian and Islamic fundamentalism as similar phenomena. I think that similar problems might arise in both cases. So there is a separatist-sectarian aspect to at least some of the homeschooling movement that is troubling to me.

p. 48--a discussion about Jefferson's vision of public schools sustaining democracy followed by an interesing admission: "Home schooling may turn out better students, but does it create better citizens?"

If homeschooling serves populations that want to hold themselves apart from the majority, which the see as tainted in some way, could there be problems in fostering the kind of social integration that makes us all *Americans*?

Is religious-political separatism on the right really any different than all the race-class-gender-sexual preference separatism promoted by the left? Or is it just another example of the fragmenting of our nation into numerous little affinity-groups?

p. 52--A psychotherapist who studied publicly schooled and home-schooled students: "He found that home schoolers were generally more patient and less competitive. They tended to introduce themselves to one another more; they didn't fight as much. And the home schoolers were much more prone to exchange addresses and phone numbers. In short, the behaved like miniature adults." Time: "Which is great, unless you believe that kids should be kids befor they are adults. (Like more fighting, drugs, vandalism...kid stuff.)

I think that there might be a very important point hidden in this passage, one that points to a possible problem in the very concept of *schools* themselves.

Children are little emulation-engines. They copy the adults that they see around them. That's how children mature and become adults themselves.

But if that's the case, does it do children any good to isolate them from adults at their most impressionable age and put them into a social environment dominated by other children? Instead of emulating adults, the kids will start copying each other's behavior. Instead of emulating naturally superior adults, they will seek peer role-models whose 'superiority' is often spurious and even disfunctional.

Does the rise of adolescent subcultures with all their attendant problems parallel the universalization of the school system? In most cultures and most periods of history, children have been treated like little adults. They spent most of their time around adults, doing chores and learning a trade. So they assimilated easily into the world of adulthood.

Has the well-intentioned attempt to provide universal schooling for all of our children had unintended psychological consequences?

That's obviously just a speculation. But conceivably there could be an argument for homeschooling there.

	Ashford University Ashford University Ashford offers online MBA, bachelors, and masters in many fields, including Business, Accounting, Business Administration, International Business, Economics, Business Information Systems, Social and Criminal Justice, Communication, Early Childhood Education and Administration, Education and Public Policy, English, Entrepreneurship, Environmental Studies, Finance, Health Care Administration, HC Studies, Health and Human Services, History, Homeland Security and Emergency Mgmt, Human Resource Mgmt, Journalism, Communication, Operations Mgmt, Organizational Mgmt, Political Science, Psychology, Public Admin, Public Relations, Social Sciences, Sociology, Risk Management, Sports, Teacher Certification, Education, Health Care Administration, Organizational Management, Teaching & Learning with Technology, and Public Administration. The school is regionally accredited, the most widely recognized accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school.

Speaking of socialization in high school -- this is an interesting article by a college student. These opinions are quite thought-provoking -- and I just happen to agree.

Abolishing High School
by Ross G. Douthat '02
The Harvard Crimson
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=103526

[Bill Highsmith]

quote by Bill Dayson I tend to support home schooling. But I'm also a congenital skeptic, and I don't believe in utopia. Everything has its pluses and minuses. So I have many questions and reservations.

So here are some comments, meant to provoke discussion:

-----------------------------------
...many of the facts, such as the 80-point higher SAT scores that home schoolers get on average, their recruitment by ivy league schools, their general success, the rapid growth of home schooling...
-----------------------------------

I think that there may be a contradiction implicit in those words.

A major reason that home schooling has been generally successful up until now is that it has been a small niche movement pursued by parents who tend to be well prepared and highly motivated. If homeschooling were generalized to the wider population (implied by the words "rapid growth"), would parents still have those advantages as teachers? Or would the quality of homeschooling graduates drop off rapidly if you tried to scale it up?

First, I have the advantage of the article at hand and will introduce new material from the article....The "rapid growth" is only up to 1.7% (in Florida). I think the article writer's assumption that growth will continue to a significant level is dead wrong. The vast majority of parents will not go to the trouble of home schooling, for one of many reasons. If home schooling reached the 10% mark nationwide I'd be sore amazed. The ones who are participating are inherently highly motivated and so I think the results will continue to be impressive.

I also wonder if here aren't some selection effects here. Homeschooling graduates may claim higher average SATs and more prestige-college admissions, but what sample was used? All homeschool graduates or some subset of them? Did the less successful kids fall out somewhere along the line?

The author did not give the source of the SAT score study and posed the same question but did not answer it. (The author did not research it, apparently, but did speculate about it.) The author did cite a University of Maryland study of the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and placed the home schoolers at the 75th percentile (50% is average). The speculation was about both the SAT and ITBS.

-----------------------------------
the diffusion of home schooling into all sectors of society (the survey showed that 38% of home schoolers participated for religious reasons now).
-----------------------------------

I am troubled by religious sects trying to segregate their kids from the general American population. For example, imagine Islamic homeschooling.

In this case, it's easy to see that there might be problems with children integrating effectively into the wider society around them. The whole *point* of their homeschooling is to teach them values that are significantly divergent from those of that wider society.

Well, I'm not a Christian, and I view Christian and Islamic fundamentalism as similar phenomena. I think that similar problems might arise in both cases. So there is a separatist-sectarian aspect to at least some of the homeschooling movement that is troubling to me.

Then you should be heartened by that statistic since it has been a drum beat of those against home schooling that it was entirely a "Religious Right" phenomenon.

The top four reasons given were (from a Fed. Govt. study):

48.9%: Can give child better educ. at home
38.4%: Religious reasons (no breakdown)
25.6%: Poor learning environment at school
16.8%: Family reasons

The first and third seem nearly the same, one positively stated and the other negatively stated. So about 65% of home school parents motivated by their belief that public schools are of poor quality. (By the way, I think that a school can be full of excellent teachers but that the environment can destroy the experience.)

I don't know why religious home schooling is troubling. The children already are receiving religous training at home/church/synagogue/temple/mosque. It is no more the public schools' job to teach religion than to "unteach" it.

[quote][b]
-----------------------------------
p. 48--a discussion about Jefferson's vision of public schools sustaining democracy followed by an interesing admission: "Home schooling may turn out better students, but does it create better citizens?"
-----------------------------------

If homeschooling serves populations that want to hold themselves apart from the majority, which the see as tainted in some way, could there be problems in fostering the kind of social integration that makes us all *Americans*?

Is religious-political separatism on the right really any different than all the race-class-gender-sexual preference separatism promoted by the left? Or is it just another example of the fragmenting of our nation into numerous little affinity-groups?
[\B][\QUOTE]
As the previous section showed, the main issue seems to be quality. I don't know how poorer quality education teaches better democracy. If a person has a better education in general (as proven to a degree by standardized testing, college admissions, etc.) then the person will have a better understanding of democracy.

-----------------------------------
p. 52--A psychotherapist who studied publicly schooled and home-schooled students: "He found that home schoolers were generally more patient and less competitive. They tended to introduce themselves to one another more; they didn't fight as much. And the home schoolers were much more prone to exchange addresses and phone numbers. In short, the behaved like miniature adults." Time: "Which is great, unless you believe that kids should be kids befor they are adults. (Like more fighting, drugs, vandalism...kid stuff.)
-----------------------------------

I think that there might be a very important point hidden in this passage, one that points to a possible problem in the very concept of *schools* themselves.

Children are little emulation-engines. They copy the adults that they see around them. That's how children mature and become adults themselves.

But if that's the case, does it do children any good to isolate them from adults at their most impressionable age and put them into a social environment dominated by other children? Instead of emulating adults, the kids will start copying each other's behavior. Instead of emulating naturally superior adults, they will seek peer role-models whose 'superiority' is often spurious and even disfunctional.

Does the rise of adolescent subcultures with all their attendant problems parallel the universalization of the school system? In most cultures and most periods of history, children have been treated like little adults. They spent most of their time around adults, doing chores and learning a trade. So they assimilated easily into the world of adulthood.

Has the well-intentioned attempt to provide universal schooling for all of our children had unintended psychological consequences?

That's obviously just a speculation. But conceivably there could be an argument for homeschooling there.

I think I agree. Children are born imitators and have a voracious appetite for experience. They WILL imitate whatever they're exposed to, even if it is a blank screen. I do think home schooling parents should provide outlets for interaction with other children and the article seemed to show that there is an increasing awareness of the importance of this. The study cited was poorly explained, as were all of the others. It did not explain, for example, in what sort of situation the observations were made...joint classroom, playground, Walmart....

	Ashford University Ashford University Ashford offers online MBA, bachelors, and masters in many fields, including Business, Accounting, Business Administration, International Business, Economics, Business Information Systems, Social and Criminal Justice, Communication, Early Childhood Education and Administration, Education and Public Policy, English, Entrepreneurship, Environmental Studies, Finance, Health Care Administration, HC Studies, Health and Human Services, History, Homeland Security and Emergency Mgmt, Human Resource Mgmt, Journalism, Communication, Operations Mgmt, Organizational Mgmt, Political Science, Psychology, Public Admin, Public Relations, Social Sciences, Sociology, Risk Management, Sports, Teacher Certification, Education, Health Care Administration, Organizational Management, Teaching & Learning with Technology, and Public Administration. The school is regionally accredited, the most widely recognized accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school.

[Bill Highsmith]

Originally posted by Bill Highsmith:
The top four reasons given were (from a Fed. Govt. study):

48.9%: Can give child better educ. at home
38.4%: Religious reasons (no breakdown)
25.6%: Poor learning environment at school
16.8%: Family reasons

I looked at the full statistics again and the reasons add up to over 197.2%. I guess the parents were allowed to give more than one motivation, so it is a bit difficult to analyze. Here are the remaining reasons:

15.1%: To develop character/morality
12.1%: Object to what school teaches
11.6%: Schoold does not challenge child
11.5%: Other problems with available schools
9.0%: Student behavior problems at school
8.2%: Child has special needs/disability

Source: Department of Education, "Homeschooling in the United States: 1999"