Accreditation/State Authorization

[Torry]

Dear Folks:

I'm very surprised that most members of the forum seem to enjoy making sarcastic jokes about state authorized universities and their graduates.

I realize this is a moderated forum. Reading from the various posts tells me that many hardcore accreditation fans take great pride in trashing other human beings such as the state authorized university graduates. Apparently, it seems like the RA fans were always encouraged to do so, since it is "the voice that differs from the crowd" that gets his or her ID banned. Were they all spammers? If you say yes, it'd be a generalization.

This trashing of human beings and fellow learners even goes as far as making fun of their English skills. When a state authorized (SA) University grad speaks out, then his or her english, grammar, and more, becomes an instant topic of laughs. When I observe that when the RA fans makes a mistake or two, everyone just keeps their mouth shut. So my question is, why is this happening in this moderated forum? Is my post going to get erased, and ID banned? Or is this simply a forum for RA fans only? If so, please state on the "I agree" section so we know.

Many of you emphasize that SA students simply want to have a cheap degree; that is, an easy one. Well I hate to say, who'd like to earn a degree that is "extra extra hard?" And those who submits that some SA grads simply want to get a phd and call themselves doctors, well, does all the RA phd candidates here really need their phd for job advancement, satisfaction, or they just want to call themselves doctors too?

On another thread, I've seen that many correspondence based programs, the M.Div, the M.A., as suggested by North, have been scrutized because it's home based learning. Well, I didn't know that RA instituions would discriminate against each other. And certainly these people want a "super hard" degree thru distance learning so they can have less time with their family, kids, and work???

Some have suggested some newer british universities will accept state authorized schools providing the requirements for licensure is strictly documented. This is an alternative choice for the SA graduates, and should deserve a little more attention than your average University of Phoenix.

I'm a student at Century, and I think your generalization about CU is very unforutunate. I've read that many claims that CU has move state to state to avoid tougher school laws, and that New Mexico state have lax laws with little enforcements despite similar licencing laws with the RA people. Facts please? Are these generalizations as well?

Torry

	University of Phoenix University of Phoenix UoP is probably the largest, most popular online school in the US. With the largest selection of degrees, you can easily find the specific program you are interested in. They offer Arts & Religion (Associate's and Bachelor's), Business and MBA (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Computers and Information Technology (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Education and Teaching (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's, Doctoral), Health and Medicine/Nursing (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Science and Technology (Bachelor's), and Social Sciences/Criminal Justice (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's, Doctoral). The school is regionally accredited, the most widely recognized accreditation. Click The Link to receive FREE information on this school.

[barryfoster]

Hi Torry,

I admit it. I recommend RA for US students. However, I do *not* believe that students who choose another path are somehow inferior. Plus I could care less about spelling errors, grammer, etc. Grades for these posts don't go on your permnament record. :-)

First point:

The heart of the matter is degree acceptability. If the state-approved program is any good, I would assume that a student should be putting close to the same amount of time as the RA student (an assumption here). However, the state-approved degree will still be significantly limited - compared to an RA degree.

If I were to put that much work in earning a degree, I'd sure want it to be well accepted - in educational institutions, profit / non-profit orgs., and among peers.

People can choose whatever school they'd like. This forum helps people make an educated choice. I wish I could have had this kind of information back in the early 1980s (1) before I earned a couple of non-RA degrees, (2) before I had to go back to school, and (3) earn RA degrees that would be respected - just so I could continue my education and desired career choice. (how's that for a run-on sentence :-)

Second point:

Education is a credential. "Cheap" credentials are worthless. Folks who are looking for cheap credentials can cheaply adn easily get what they are looking for - and they end up with what they pay for and work for. The world is getting much smarter about accreditation and degree quality (finally).

Third point:

I hope you don't any of this personally. It's not directed at you as a human being. It's directed to help folks make informed decisions. Feel free to disagree. It sure won't hurt my feelings.

Barry Foster

Originally posted by Torry:
I'm very surprised that most members of the forum seem to enjoy making sarcastic jokes about state authorized universities and their graduates.

Torry,

Welcome to the forum. Without addressing Century University directly, which has been done in numerous posts here on DegreeInfo, several observations are important:

1. If one is looking for a degree which will be respected/recognized/accepted in almost any given scenario, then RA (or its foreign equivalent) is the the route one should take.

2. There are indeed some state authorized/approved schools which offer legitimate educational opportunities, however, the degree will be very limited in its utility.

3. At the same time, there are some schools which operate legally in some states, which are basically nothing more than degree mills.

4. Some state approved/authorized degrees may meet one's current/future needs, e.g., a Cal Coast degree has enabled some in Cal to obtain state licensure. This, however, is on a very limited basis and would probably not transfer to another state.

5. If you will follow the postings at DegreeInfo, you will find that for the most part (although there is injected humor/sarcasm, etc. at times), the objective is to provide information which will facilitate potential distance learners in making an informed decision in their academic pursuit.

Russell

Originally posted by barryfoster:
Plus I could care less about spelling errors, grammer, etc.

Barry,

I am concerned that one who holds a RA Ph.D. would not spell "grammar" correctly. I heard that Trinity College & University is offering an online course in "Spelling 101." Wasn't TCU approved by the state of Lousiana, then by South Dakota, then by......................???

Russell,
Who once spelled ACCREDITATION incorrectly, which is a NO NO.

[John Bear]

While I have written favorably about more than a few unaccredited schools over the years, I have no sympathy or affection for a university that claims its accreditation from a dreadful and unrecognized agency, but does not (in the literature I have seen) mention the fact that their accreditation is unrecognized and thus useless in most situations.

The story of Century's accreditor, and the hilarious history of the 'sting' operation in Missouri, has been told in print many times -- in news forums, in Levicoff's book, in mine, and in my University Business article on diploma mills: http://www.universitybusiness.com/0003/diploma.html

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[barryfoster]

Thanks Russell. I'll sign up tomorrow! :-)

Barry Foster

Originally posted by Russell A. Morris:
Barry,

I am concerned that one who holds a RA Ph.D. would not spell "grammar" correctly. I heard that Trinity College & University is offering an online course in "Spelling 101." Wasn't TCU approved by the state of Lousiana, then by South Dakota, then by......................???

Russell,
Who once spelled ACCREDITATION incorrectly, which is a NO NO.

[barryfoster]

Plus my other spell-checking / grammatical kinds of errors include:

permnament
an RA
adn
work for.

etc. etc. :-)

Seriously, I don't give a rip about typos, grammEr, etc.

* I type.
* I press "submit".
* I'm done.
* I go on with something important like playing with the kids.

It's an important philisophical point for me, but I won't go into it unless someone is interested.

Barry Foster

P.S. Russell, I've missed the accrediDation word a lot too!! :-)

[Rich Douglas]

Originally posted by Torry:
I'm a student at Century, and I think your generalization about CU is very unforutunate. I've read that many claims that CU has move state to state to avoid tougher school laws, and that New Mexico state have lax laws with little enforcements despite similar licencing laws with the RA people. Facts please? Are these generalizations as well?

Torry

They are not generalizations. Century's move out of California coincided with their inability to meet the new approval requirements. Until that point, they had been allowed to operate at the "authorized" level (which had been eliminated), where schools were permitted to operate without any scrutiny, other than the information they supplied to the state on their application.

Century moved to New Mexico. At the time, the state had little regulatory scrutiny over private schools. They've since toughened their standards, but those new standards do not apply to Century.

A remarkable percentage of Century faculty listed have their highest degrees from Century. This is a good sign of bad quality. And others have their highest degrees from other, unaccredited schools. Not good.

Century claims more than 10,000 graduates over the years, a striking number when one looks at the tiny faculty.

Century has claimed accreditation from an unrecognized, laughable agency for more than two decades. This accreditation serves one purpose: to fool people who do not understand accreditation.

Century's degrees, including doctorates, may be earned in less than a year without any coursework.

Research shows that unaccredited schools, whether they're located in states with a lot or with little scrutiny over them, issue credits and degrees that are utterly worthless in the academic world. One has to wonder what value they'd have in the workplace if employers really understood the nature of the school. I'm convinced after working in this field for more than two decades that the acceptability of such degrees is largely based upon ignorance. So take advantage of that, if you'd like. But not everyone is naive about schools like Century, and you might find yourself in a bad situation because of your "degree" from there.

Rich Douglas

Originally posted by barryfoster:
Seriously, I don't give a rip about typos, grammEr, etc.

Only kidding, man!

Have a great weeeekend, sorry, weekend.

Russell

[barryfoster]

I'm with you Russell my friend! I was goofing around too!

Barry Foster

Originally posted by Russell A. Morris:
Only kidding, man!

Have a great weeeekend, sorry, weekend.

Russell

[Torry]

Posted by Mr. Douglas:
They are not generalizations. Century's move out of California coincided with their inability to meet the new approval requirements. Until that point, they had been allowed to operate at the "authorized" level (which had been eliminated), where schools were permitted to operate without any scrutiny, other than the information they supplied to the state on their application.

I think this is a generalization. Whether you were influenced, biased, or not, I cannot tell of course. You cannot provide any evidence that it was the change of California education code that caused Century to move. So, does it mean that any schools that relocate during that timeframe is "skipping across the State line to avoid more rigorous standards?"

Posted by Mr. Douglas:
Century moved to New Mexico. At the time, the state had little regulatory scrutiny over private schools. They've since toughened their standards, but those new standards do not apply to Century.

You've labeled Century as a mill, and anything you say about them are obviously negative as well. First, you stated that Century "moved across State lines to avoid the newer, more rigorous California education standards." Then, when New Mexico proposed even tighter laws for their private postsecondary institutions, you then mentioned that "Century is grandfathered" I would like to know why CU's move was due to the avoidance of the new California standards "when they could have very well been grandfathered in California" despite the proposed new and more rigorous California education codes."
Perhaps you are biased, because otherwise, I could have argued that Century need not to adhere to the new New Mexico law since they already have the academic rigor in their programs.

Posted by Mr. Douglas:
A remarkable percentage of Century faculty listed have their highest degrees from Century. This is a good sign of bad quality. And others have their highest degrees from other, unaccredited schools. Not good.

So does this mean that if I go to Harvard, UMass...etc, when half of their research assitants and professors earned their Ph.Ds there, then I should not choose those institutions?

Posted by Mr. Douglas:
Century claims more than 10,000 graduates over the years, a striking number when one looks at the tiny faculty.

And you seem confident enough to suggest that the properly accredited University of Phoenix and CCHS have numerous faculty to serve the students' needs.

Posted by Mr. Douglas:
Century has claimed accreditation from an unrecognized, laughable agency for more than two decades. This accreditation serves one purpose: to fool people who do not understand accreditation.

You have a good point on that one.

Posted by Mr. Douglas:
Century's degrees, including doctorates, may be earned in less than a year without any coursework.

Facts and data please.

Posted by Mr. Douglas:
Research shows that unaccredited schools, whether they're located in states with a lot or with little scrutiny over them, issue credits and degrees that are utterly worthless in the academic world. One has to wonder what value they'd have in the workplace if employers really understood the nature of the school. I'm convinced after working in this field for more than two decades that the acceptability of such degrees is largely based upon ignorance. So take advantage of that, if you'd like. But not everyone is naive about schools like Century, and you might find yourself in a bad situation because of your "degree" from there.

You just said at the AED that "you assert that there are unlimited opportunities for state authrorized graduates because many employers either do not know, or do not care."

Torry

[John Bear]

Torry writes, ":You cannot provide any evidence that it was the change of California education code that caused Century to move. So, does it mean that any schools that relocate during that timeframe is "skipping across the State line to avoid more rigorous standards?"

I'd say yes to that, and not just in that timeframe. Century owner Donald Breslow told me this was the reason when we met in person in the late 70's. I believe he still owns the university. You could ask him. Incidentally, years later Breslow still lived in and ran Century from southern California.

[Rich Douglas]

Originally posted by Torry:
You cannot provide any evidence that it was the change of California education code that caused Century to move. So, does it mean that any schools that relocate during that timeframe is "skipping across the State line to avoid more rigorous standards?"

I don't have too. When presented a simple explanation for an event vs. a complicated one, logic demands acceptance of the simple one. Century never had even one program approved by the state. As soon as the state required such, they moved to another state that had no such requirements. There is no other plausible explanation. (Thanks to John for providing the first-hand account of his discussion of the same with Breslow.)

You've labeled Century as a mill, and anything you say about them are obviously negative as well. First, you stated that Century "moved across State lines to avoid the newer, more rigorous California education standards." Then, when New Mexico proposed even tighter laws for their private postsecondary institutions, you then mentioned that "Century is grandfathered" I would like to know why CU's move was due to the avoidance of the new California standards "when they could have very well been grandfathered in California" despite the proposed new and more rigorous California education codes."
Perhaps you are biased, because otherwise, I could have argued that Century need not to adhere to the new New Mexico law since they already have the academic rigor in their programs.

Oh, I'm biased alright (in the sense that I do not support Century), but it is for cause.

I never labled Century a "mill." Stop setting up your own arguments in my name. That you fail to defeat them makes your defense of the indefensible even more absurd.

I also didn't suggest that Century could be "grandfathered" under California law. When California eliminated the ridiculous "Athorized" category, it gave schools like Century time to meet the "Approved" standard. It left the state (technically, if not in reality) instead.


So does this mean that if I go to Harvard, UMass...etc, when half of their research assitants and professors earned their Ph.Ds there, then I should not choose those institutions?

If this is true, and I have no desire to count heads, Century is hardly comparable to those schools. It certainly isn't true at other DL universities like Capella and Union. Of course, Century doesn't compare with them, either.


And you seem confident enough to suggest that the properly accredited University of Phoenix and CCHS have numerous faculty to serve the students' needs.

I've seen some complaints about the size of CCHS's faculty, but I've never commented one way or another. UoP's faculty is quite large as they offer degree programs FTF all over the country. Again, you argue both sides and still fail.

Facts and data please.

Century has been stating such in its literature for more than two decades. I don't have to disprove what the other side stipulates. I chose to accept their word on this one. (Their word can be found at http://www.centuryuniversity.edu/Century.pdf . This is a pdf file where the time requirements are spelled out. A Century doctorate can be completed in nine months.)

You just said at the AED that "you assert that there are unlimited opportunities for state authrorized graduates because many employers either do not know, or do not care."

I've not posted in the "AED" in almost a year. This is not a quote from me, nor do I agree with its premise. I do feel the utility of degrees from bad schools is enhance by public ignorance, not to mention unscrupulous promoters. Hardly a legacy on which to base the new "Harvard, UMass, etc."

Torry[/b]

The poster, annoyingly, sets up his/her own arguments, then attempts (in vain) to refute them. He/she offers not one shred of evidence that anything said about Century is at all false. Not one. Any guesses why?

Rich Douglas

	Capella University Capella University Capella provides working adults the opportunity to earn online degrees in the fields of business management, health care, nursing, criminal justice, higher education, psychology, social work, human resources, information technology, mental health and counseling, K-12 education, public safety and public administration, and public service leadership. The school is regionally accredited, the most widely recognized accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school. [/center]

	University of Phoenix University of Phoenix UoP is probably the largest, most popular online school in the US. With the largest selection of degrees, you can easily find the specific program you are interested in. They offer Arts & Religion (Associate's and Bachelor's), Business and MBA (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Computers and Information Technology (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Education and Teaching (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's, Doctoral), Health and Medicine/Nursing (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Science and Technology (Bachelor's), and Social Sciences/Criminal Justice (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's, Doctoral). The school is regionally accredited, the most widely recognized accreditation. Click The Link to receive FREE information on this school.

[Torry]

Mr. Douglas wrote:
I don't have too. When presented a simple explanation for an event vs. a complicated one, logic demands acceptance of the simple one. Century never had even one program approved by the state. As soon as the state required such, they moved to another state that had no such requirements. There is no other plausible explanation. (Thanks to John for providing the first-hand account of his discussion of the same with Breslow.)

The problem is not whether you do, or do not have to provide some concrete evidence. The key issue is, whether you can, or cannot. You stressed the importance of parsimony in your logic, but you certainly cannot convince others that it is the new California Education codes that made Century skip across the State line. Perhaps, you or Dr. Bear would care to tell us why the then-owner of Century would actually tell you that his school relocated because he wants to avoid the new Calif. law? Hardly convincing.

Oh, I'm biased alright (in the sense that I do not support Century), but it is for cause.

As long as you admit that you are biased, then your whole conclusion is useless.

If this is true, and I have no desire to count heads, Century is hardly comparable to those schools. It certainly isn't true at other DL universities like Capella and Union. Of course, Century doesn't compare with them, either.

What about University of Phoenix? Is this properly accredited institution comparable to Capella and Union? Many posters have suggested that UoP seems more interested in your checkbook, then in the education you're learning.

Century has been stating such in its literature for more than two decades. I don't have to disprove what the other side stipulates. I chose to accept their word on this one. (Their word can be found at http://www.centuryuniversity.edu/Century.pdf . This is a pdf file where the time requirements are spelled out. A Century doctorate can be completed in nine months.)

First of all, Century states that their doctoral programs can be completed in 9 months to 2 years. But it does not mention that it can be done with no coursework. All doctoral programs at Century requires you to submit a dissertation, and defend it in front of the committe. This leads to another the flaw in your logic when you've suggested in the past that California's Education code is much more rigorous than New Mexico's "lax" standards. If this is so, I don't see how a SCUPS or CCU graduate can have a DBA in 9 months with NO dissertation. Logic demands a simplier explannation to a problem, but only if you can get your logic right.

I've not posted in the "AED" in almost a year. This is not a quote from me, nor do I agree with its premise. I do feel the utility of degrees from bad schools is enhance by public ignorance, not to mention unscrupulous promoters. Hardly a legacy on which to base the new "Harvard, UMass, etc."

Quote from yours truly, at:http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Rich+Douglas+who+confidently+group:alt.ed ucation.distance&hl=en&rnum=1&selm=38545258.D73433 4%40erols.com

Do let us know if that was your post. I do not set you up, but you just happened to set yourself up.

Torry

	Capella University Capella University Capella provides working adults the opportunity to earn online degrees in the fields of business management, health care, nursing, criminal justice, higher education, psychology, social work, human resources, information technology, mental health and counseling, K-12 education, public safety and public administration, and public service leadership. The school is regionally accredited, the most widely recognized accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school. [/center]

[Rich Douglas]

[quote]Originally posted by Torry:

The problem is not whether you do, or do not have to provide some concrete evidence. The key issue is, whether you can, or cannot. You stressed the importance of parsimony in your logic, but you certainly cannot convince others that it is the new California Education codes that made Century skip across the State line. Perhaps, you or Dr. Bear would care to tell us why the then-owner of Century would actually tell you that his school relocated because he wants to avoid the new Calif. law? Hardly convincing.

But it is true. I have never ceased to be amazed how candid operators of bad schools will be. John has been reporting such conversations for more than 25 years. Or didn't you know that?

As long as you admit that you are biased, then your whole conclusion is useless.

No. You took what was a sly remark (one I clearly qualified) and turned it into what you wanted it to be. To be factual, I am against Century University. But that's for no other reason than that it presents itself as something it most clearly is not: a legitimate institution of higher education.

What about University of Phoenix? Is this properly accredited institution comparable to Capella and Union? Many posters have suggested that UoP seems more interested in your checkbook, then in the education you're learning.

You're entitled to that opinion. But UoP has been accredited for almost two decades. The North Central Association seems to have no problem with them. Where is Century's regional accreditation? It has none, has never been accredited, and will never be accredited in its present form. Complaining about Phoenix and then using it as a basis for comparison with Century is simultaneously inaccurate and self-defeating!

First of all, Century states that their doctoral programs can be completed in 9 months to 2 years. But it does not mention that it can be done with no coursework. All doctoral programs at Century requires you to submit a dissertation, and defend it in front of the committe. This leads to another the flaw in your logic when you've suggested in the past that California's Education code is much more rigorous than New Mexico's "lax" standards. If this is so, I don't see how a SCUPS or CCU graduate can have a DBA in 9 months with NO dissertation. Logic demands a simplier explannation to a problem, but only if you can get your logic right.

Who said anything about SCUPS and CCU? Century has no standards and operates under none as well. The newer New Mexico rules are not applied to them because, unlike California, New Mexico chose to grandfather schools operating under the old rule.

I've criticized the "no-dissertation" DBA as not being doctoral-level. Where were you when I posted that sentiment on several occasions on this board?

Your statement about coursework is contradictory. You say Century's literature does not say that a degree can be done without coursework, then you describe how it is done!

Quote from yours truly, at:http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Rich+Douglas+who+confidently+group:alt.ed ucation.distance&hl=en&rnum=1&selm=38545258.D73433 4%40erols.com

Do let us know if that was your post. I do not set you up, but you just happened to set yourself up.

That post was from 1999, when I was quite active on a.e.d. As I said, I've not posted to a.e.d. for almost a year now.

Proponents of Century use the same tactics (perhaps the only thing actually taught there?). They take disconnected ideas, lies, distortions, and the like and build arguments in support of their very bad school. When confronted, they spew a few more falsehoods, then run when their lies won't go unanswered.

Century remains an unaccredited school with no public or private oversight, awarding degrees based upon insufficient academic standards and processes. It has misled the public and its customers regarding the true nature of the school. It's salesman of the hour can't even get his/her facts right, even though the school hasn't changed a bit (except for its mailing address) in two decades.

Rich Douglas

	University of Phoenix University of Phoenix UoP is probably the largest, most popular online school in the US. With the largest selection of degrees, you can easily find the specific program you are interested in. They offer Arts & Religion (Associate's and Bachelor's), Business and MBA (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Computers and Information Technology (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Education and Teaching (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's, Doctoral), Health and Medicine/Nursing (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's), Science and Technology (Bachelor's), and Social Sciences/Criminal Justice (Associate's, Bachelor's, Master's, Doctoral). The school is regionally accredited, the most widely recognized accreditation. Click The Link to receive FREE information on this school.

	California Coast University California Coast University CCU offers the following online degrees: Associate’s Degrees in Business Administration, Criminal Justice, Healthcare Administration, and Marketing; Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration, Criminal Justice, Healthcare Administration, Management, Marketing, and Psychology; MBA’s with concentrations in General Business, and Human Resources Mgmt; Master’s in Education in Curriculum & Instruction, and Education Administration; and a Master of Science in Management and Psychology. The school is DETC accredited, a widely recognized accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school. [/center]

[John Bear]

Torry writes: "Perhaps, you or Dr. Bear would care to tell us why the then-owner of Century would actually tell you that his school relocated because he wants to avoid the new Calif. law? Hardly convincing."

With pleasure, although I cannot produce a transcript of the cordial meeting held in Mr. Breslow's office in 1977 or 1978.

Over the years, since 1975, I have had many talks with owners of schools without recognized accreditation, responding to their request for my expertise on how they might deal with impending legislation in their state, and in other locations. Such talks, always cordial, have been held with Breslow of Century University, Tom Neal the founder of California Coast, Philip Forte the owner of Pacific Western, Fred Calabro the founder of Kensington, even Lloyd Clayton of Chadwick and others.

They sought my advice and counsel because, unlike Torry who seems to be accusing me of lying, they know I tell the truth, and gladly share facts and opinions.

Moving a university interstate is a really big deal. To the best of my knowledge, none of the 3,000+ properly-accredited colleges and universities in America has ever moved from one state to another. What possible reason could any of the dozens and dozens of schools without recognized accreditation possibly have for such moves, quite common, and inevitably taking place at the time that their home 4state laws were about to change, other than to find a more hospitable home for their business.

Torry, like Cleopatra, may be Queen of Denial, but that's his or her problem, not mine, thankfully.

John Bear

	California Coast University California Coast University CCU offers the following online degrees: Associate’s Degrees in Business Administration, Criminal Justice, Healthcare Administration, and Marketing; Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration, Criminal Justice, Healthcare Administration, Management, Marketing, and Psychology; MBA’s with concentrations in General Business, and Human Resources Mgmt; Master’s in Education in Curriculum & Instruction, and Education Administration; and a Master of Science in Management and Psychology. The school is DETC accredited, a widely recognized accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school. [/center]

[drwetsch]

Torry,

You just need to accept the fact that Century does not give you a valid academic credential. Sorry to hear that you wasted your time and money there. Rather than argue with Rich you need to accept the consequences of using your Century degree.
Good luck. :-)

John

2. There are indeed some state authorized/approved schools which offer legitimate educational opportunities, however, the degree will be very limited in its utility.

This is the most succint, most important and most definitive statement made on this or any other DL forum to date.

Thanks,

Jimmy

[Gus Sainz]

Originally posted by Jimmy Clifton:
2. There are indeed some state authorized/approved schools which offer legitimate educational opportunities, however, the degree will be very limited in its utility.

This is the most succint, most important and most definitive statement made on this or any other DL forum to date.

Thanks,

Jimmy

Yes, Jimmy, some state authorized/approved schools do, indeed, offer legitimate educational opportunities. These opportunities, however, are, at best, equal to, and in the vast majority of cases, greatly inferior to, the myriad of educational opportunities available to anyone who chooses to pursue an education on their own. These opportunities are as close as your public library. As Mark Twain so eloquently stated, "I have never let schooling interfere with my education."

Degrees, however, are a completely different story; many state authorized/approved school degrees have extremely limited utility (about as much as a previously used toilet paper). Their utility is direct proportion to either the apathy or ignorance of the person whose function it is to evaluate it or the willingness of the degree holder to deceive others. As has been stated so many times before, you are probably better off simply printing your own.


Gus Sainz

[Gary Bonus]

Originally posted by Gus Sainz:

Degrees, however, are a completely different story; many state authorized/approved school degrees have extremely limited utility (about as much as a previously used toilet paper). Their utility is direct proportion to either the apathy or ignorance of the person whose function it is to evaluate it or the willingness of the degree holder to deceive others. As has been stated so many times before, you are probably better off simply printing your own.
Gus Sainz

Gus,

On the other hand, their utility is surely in the eye of the beholder. You, and many others, have your opinions, although not always so classily stated a you have here. I, and many others, have our opinions.

The utility of of a degree from a UDGI that happens to be some individual's alma mater is in direct proportion to either the action and intelligence of the person whose function it is to evaluate it and/or the willingness of the degree holder to be honest. The action of an intelligent person to thoroughly check out each individual state authorized or approved school rather than take the apathetic or ignorant way of simply rejecting all of them in a callous and disrespectful manner. The honesty of a degree holder to answer, in a straight forward manner, questions that are asked by applicable functional evaluators. No more or no less.

As far as printing your own: since Bill Gates and others did not need any degree to get filthy rich, perhaps all business degree holders would have been better off investing in toilet paper.

Gary