St. Luke Evangelical School of Biblical Studies

www.ficotw.org/school.html

The paragraph regarding accreditation is interesting.

[roysavia]

Originally posted by Russell A. Morris
www.ficotw.org/school.html

The paragraph regarding accreditation is interesting.

"Specifically, this school will not claim accreditation from The International
Accrediting Council, Transworld Accrediting Commission, Eastern Accrediting Association of Colleges, Universities, and Seminaries, the
Accrediting Commission International, or any other organization known and recognized to be "accreditation mills" which are not officially recognized and whose sole purpose is to
imply official accreditation which does not exist. St.Luke Evangelical School Of Biblical Studies will not now or at any time engage in such deceptive practices"

Isn't this comforting........so am I to believe that a doctorate from this bible college is legitimate according to Rev. Ford?

[uncle janko]

I noticed, after reading the whole bloody mess, that there is a section on "pastoral depression." This website induces what it cannot cure. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by roysavia
so am I to believe that a doctorate from this bible college is legitimate according to Rev. Ford?

According to the Reverend Ford, it would seem so. Good news, huh?

Originally posted by uncle janko
I noticed, after reading the whole bloody mess, that there is a section on "pastoral depression." This website induces what it cannot cure. :rolleyes:

So true.

Lets be "less-than-wonderful" for the Lord.

North

Originally posted by uncle janko
I noticed, after reading the whole bloody mess, that there is a section on "pastoral depression." This website induces what it cannot cure.

Item #8 in the "suggestions" segment of the pastoral depression lesson states that one may need to see a medical doctor. Perhaps St. Luke's also awards the MD.

[uncle janko]

No, Vladica, that was the OTHER St Luke's, more or less from Florida or Liberia or one of those places.

[obecve]

WOW! to think my Ed.D. dissertation was over 240 pages, when I only needed 2 pages for a D.Min. or a Ph.D.. Maybe I should get both! That would give me a triple doc and I could be well on my way to having the credenials of Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Trudy!

[Bill Grover]

Originally posted by obecve
That would give me a triple doc and I could be well on my way to having the credenials of Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Trudy! [/B]

--

She is an inspiration to us all:D

[roysavia]

Originally posted by obecve
WOW! to think my Ed.D. dissertation was over 240 pages, when I only needed 2 pages for a D.Min. or a Ph.D.. Maybe I should get both! That would give me a triple doc and I could be well on my way to having the credenials of Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Trudy!

Actually, had you submitted your dissertation 2 pages at a time, you would have been awarded 120 doctorates! :D

[Bill Grover]

Chumps at Oxford. I loved that movie, Roy.

[uncle janko]

Fine, but Dr Trudy has soothing pages of poetry, which is funny for a "woman warrior" or whatever...

[Bill Grover]

I think the Trudy thread really needs to be canonized.



When down in the dumps and in need of cheering up, I oft take me away to theTrudy thread and role around there in the humor of la la land.

[roysavia]

Originally posted by Bill Grover
Chumps at Oxford. I loved that movie, Roy.

Mine too Bill. Thanks.

[Gus Sainz]

Originally posted by Bill Grover
I think the Trudy thread really needs to be canonized.

When down in the dumps and in need of cheering up, I oft take me away to theTrudy thread and role around there in the humor of la la land.

Funny you should mention the Dr. Trudy thread, as there are indeed several interesting connections. Dr. Tudy is listed as a member of Rev. Dr. David M. Ford’s The First International Church Of The Web (see here (http://ficotw.org/mins.html)). As The First International Church Of The Web owns St.Luke Evangelical School Of Biblical Studies, could it be that one or more of her degrees are from this institution?

Another link is that Dr. Kenneth Clarence Allen, Sr., the individual who was granted Master’s and Doctoral degrees from Jimmy Clifton’s degree mill (The Barton Warren Stone School of Divinity), is a legally ordained independent minister of Saint Luke Evangelical Christian Ministries (see here (http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/letter1.html)). The Rev. Dr. David M. Ford is the Administrator/Bishop of Saint Luke Evangelical Christian Ministries. The First International Church Of The Web and the St.Luke Evangelical School Of Biblical Studies fall under its umbrella.

Understandably, Bishop Ken Allen no longer claims his degrees are from the Barton Warren Stone School of Divinity. Instead, he claims they were issued by St. Paul Christian University (http://www.ourchurch.com/member/s/scm/) (the mill Jimmy merged his school with, and on whose board of directors both Jimmy and his wife still sit) although the graduation dates remain the same. I hardly think it was necessary for Bishop Allen to change the name on his degrees (links to pictures of the new degrees can be found here (http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/kenallen.html)), as it is unlikely anyone would notice (he holds four other Doctor of Divinity degrees). Doesn’t that tie him with Dr.X5 Trudy? :D

In the now famous thread, the only corroboration as to the legitimacy of her degrees that Dr. Trudy offered was membership in the AACT. (She described the act of filing out the application as “quite some task.”) What never came to light, however, was that Jimmy Clifton was one of the board members of the AACT. About a month ago when I "reminded" Jimmy of his affiliation with what could only be characterized as a certification mill, he immediately requested that his name and picture be removed from their Web site. The AACT promptly complied.

The AACT, however, continues to be run by a number of Jimmy’s friends and associates (several of whom run their own degree mills) and it freely (well, not exactly for free) dispenses such titles as Certified Clinical Pastoral Therapist and Certified Clinical Christian Therapist. Other titles they grant use similarly deceptive terms such as Registered, and Dr. Trudy (http://www.webmastersalliance.com/~counselor/intro.html) lists herself as being a Licensed Clinical Christian Therapist (AACT).

The fact that I find most disturbing in all of this is that all of these individuals know, aid and abet each other. :rolleyes:

[Dennis Ruhl]

Is there a reason anyone would know the life histories of such an assortment meaningless institutions, or care.

They're just religious degree mills. There are a thousand more.

Originally posted by Gus Sainz
Bishop Allen here (http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/kenallen.html)),

The good bishop has more ordinations than the Apostle Paul--12 in all.

[Gus Sainz]

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl
Is there a reason anyone would know the life histories of such an assortment meaningless institutions, or care.
I'm going to assume you simply forgot to end the sentence with a question mark, and answer the questions you posed.

Is there a reason anyone would know the life histories of such an assortment meaningless institutions? Yes. Someone who was interested in distance learning (and religious degree mills in particular) would research and know the life histories of these institutions. Steve Levicoff and Jason Baker come to mind, as does anyone else who is pursuing a religious degree via distance education. Moreover, as NIFI is out of print and has not been updated for some time, can you suggest a better forum than this one in which to attempt to keep track of these institutions and those who run them?

Are these institutions meaningless? Hardly. In many respects, they may be capable of causing more damage to many individuals than secular degree mills.

Should you care? Yes, but as I have yet to see a single, solitary, meaningful post from you concerning distance education or anything else, I don’t expect you to understand. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl
They're just religious degree mills. There are a thousand more.
I wouldn’t say “just,” but I guess that means we’ll just have to do without your help and expertise and tackle them one at a time all by ourselves. :rolleyes:

[uncle janko]

I see that this clerical luminary (Ford) claims to be a Universalist minister. Since he says he was born in 1945, and the Universalist Church in America merged with the American Unitarian Association in 1961, and it was not, so far as I know, the practice of the old Universalist Church to ordain teenagers, Mr Ford's claim to be a Universalist Church minister may well meet with some skepticism. It also seems unlikely that he is a UU minister, given his purported theological views. Further, since the Six Principle Baptists are no longer a functioning denomination, and since he does not appear to be the minister of any particular 6PB congregation, this claimed affiliation is a bit unclear as well. Having once been lectured sternly in this forum by Catholicos-Metropolitan Jimmy Clifton when I pointed out that prelate's, um, unusual handling of church historical fact and not-so-fact, I'll quit before I get too far behind the august Mr Ford.

Come to think of it, maybe I should go get some of that soothing stuff from ol' Doc Trudy...

[Bill Grover]

This "Christianization" of degree mills and their grads is so disturbing to me. I suppose I try ,and even succeed in, fooling myself in various ways. But as far as I know, I'm not trying to fool others. If I unconsciously do so, I certainly am not misrepresenting myself to anyone in order to get a work promotion or to attract religious devotion to myself. Here the lies seem purposed to do just that.

There seems to be a blinding rationality by the claimant that if one with spurious academic credentials somehow prospers in his/her religious "calling " then that excuses all poverty in the veracity of the definition of that one's academics. That one is excused from truth telling in that regard and is exonerated because the proof of God's sanction is the success He supposedly gives that ministry. So, "if God be for us, who can stand against us, " and "the end justifies the means." So if I say I got my PhD, ThD from The Seminary of The Holy Guile and preach a good sermon or give good advice or teach with authority, the deceptiveness of my docs does not count. In fact it is not there! If I can find a group of 50 who accept my false doc, then it is made real by that acceptance, and if you have a beef with that , well go talk to God who by blessing my ministry with these 50 accredits my degree.

This is done on a grander scale when the 50 multiplies to 5000 or 50,000. Then the denomination sanctions the docs which would be false save for that sanctioning. In the denomination these docs are true. And this shows the only way to deal with the hypocracy is by educating the church as to what constitutes academic integrity. It also suggests an interesting study would be a correlation between denominational academic expectations for ministers' and religious degree mills.

In Acts 20 it was the elders, whom I'm using here as analogous to genuine academicians, that were given the responsibility of preventing the Church from being misled by educating the Church. Paul had no assurance that the elders could convince the false teachers. I think also Doc Trudy would unlikely ever confess her credentials are false. She'd lose face!

So, who cares about this? I do, because I care about the integrity of the Church. A lie is a lie whether its subject is theology or education.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Originally posted by Gus Sainz

I'm going to assume you simply forgot to end the sentence with a question mark, and answer the questions you posed.


Bite me!

[BillDayson]

Originally posted by uncle janko
I see that this clerical luminary (Ford) claims to be a Universalist minister. Since he says he was born in 1945, and the Universalist Church in America merged with the American Unitarian Association in 1961, and it was not, so far as I know, the practice of the old Universalist Church to ordain teenagers, Mr Ford's claim to be a Universalist Church minister may well meet with some skepticism. It also seems unlikely that he is a UU minister, given his purported theological views...Interestingly, Jimmy Clifton also claimed to be an ordained UU minister.

http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4853&perpage=10&pagenumber=3

I pointed out that the UUA requires that graduates of divinity schools that are not accredited by the ATS must have their degrees approved by the UUA's Ministerial Fellowship Committee. I inquired whether they had approved Jimmy's Bethany degrees.

Jimmy replied:

Bill,

I was ordained by First Universalist-Unitarian Church, Horton, Michigan, which at the time was a member in good standing with the UUA and in Michigan District #74. Recently the church pulled out of the UUA and joined the NACCA. The credentials, however, are still valid.

[uncle janko]

Well, there is to my knowledge a Horton Congregational Church and a Universalist-Unitarian Church of East Liberty, both near Jackson, Michigan.

[Dennis Ruhl]

When church mergers happen not all congregations go along.

The Presbyterian Church joined with the Methodist and Congregational Churches to form the United Church of Canada, about 80 years ago, but there are still hundreds of Prebyterian Churches.

To quote someone who probably shouldn't be quoted. The United Church not only tolerates homosexuality but I think they require it. Presbyterians tend to be a bit more conservative.

[kf5k]

I can't believe I actually sat here and read all this. I knew nothing about this to begin with and have learned nothing from what was posted. Was there any purpose to any of this.
James C.

[uncle janko]

Professor Bernard Lewis, the distinguished Islamist, said in a recent interview that one of the techniques of an advanced scholar like himself, faced with a large mass of reading material, is "to read on the diagonal."

Tom Lehrer, from whom I learned almost everything I know that's worth knowing, speaks somewhere of "sliding down the razor blade of life."

If we combine these insights into the Lewis-Lehrer principle, we can sever as we scan, and so un-thread the mazy ways of thought. Otherwise, we can announce how we wasted time voluntarily reading stuff in which we weren't interested.

[spud]

Go to the website and check out the BBS discussion about the Georgia authorities not letting them issue degrees any longer.