Oregon

[Dennis Ruhl]

Read an interesting article in The Oregonian concerning higher education in Oregon.

The web site

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/00/01/st012301.html

Perhaps Wyoming should be evaluating Oregon degrees.

[DaveHayden]

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl
Read an interesting article in The Oregonian concerning higher education in Oregon.

The web site

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/00/01/st012301.html

Perhaps Wyoming should be evaluating Oregon degrees.

The main thrust of the article is that Oregon has no prestige University like Stanford, MIT, or Yale to draw top students, faculty, and dollars. It is a valid point. The best the state has to offer is probably Reed College and Willamette University. It has a tremendous middle tier with U of O, OSU, and many smaller institutions. So while it may not have a truly first tier school, it doesn't have horrible unaccredited schools of some states. On a related note, the student government president of Portland Community College was accepted as a transfer student at Reed. Quite an accomplishment.

[Bill Huffman]

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl
Perhaps Wyoming should be evaluating Oregon degrees.

I agree.

Wyoming is the laughing stock of the USA when it comes to degree mills. HAHAHA Wyoming I laugh at you and YOUR degree mills. HAHAHA There see that proves that I'm right.

[Dennis Ruhl]

Essentially my main point was that I was making no point, just appreciating the irony.

That a state, whose education system seems to be wallowing in mediocrity, should take the lead in quality of education certainly is ironic.

[DaveHayden]

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl
Essentially my main point was that I was making no point, just appreciating the irony.

That a state, whose education system seems to be wallowing in mediocrity, should take the lead in quality of education certainly is ironic.

Hi Dennis

That is what I assumed. Oregon has a relatively small population and doesn't have the luck to have a prestigious university (with the possible exception of Reed College), but does have some great schools none the less. To me that is different than "wallowing in mediocrity". I am, however, biased.

[BillDayson]

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl
Essentially my main point was that I was making no point, just appreciating the irony.

What irony? What does whining about university funding (and that's what the 'Oregonian' article was) got to do with legislation regarding non-accredited degrees?

That a state, whose education system seems to be wallowing in mediocrity, should take the lead in quality of education certainly is ironic.

Oregon's higher education system is *not* "wallowing in mediocrity". Relative to the state's population, it's actually one of the strongest in the country. (This from a Californian who admires what Oregon is doing.)

I agree that no Oregon school can yet crack the national "top ten" list. Few universities can. But to suggest that if a school isn't a contender for best university in the nation it is "mediocre", is ridiculous.

The University of Oregon is the equal of the non-flagship University of California campuses like Irvine, Santa Cruz or Riverside. I would not be surprised to see it generate a Nobel prize.

Keep in mind that the national ratings publications routinely dissed UC Santa Barbara, calling it an "easy" beach-school, until it answered back by winning three Nobel prizes in the last five years.

Oregon State is a power in less glamorous fields like science, engineering and agriculture. I mean Egyptology is always gonna win more style points than Soil Science, but soils are more important to our lives.

Oregon Health and Science University is only a few years old, but is already building a reputation, particularly in the medical sciences.

Reed, Lewis and Clark and Willamette are excellent primarily undergraduate liberal arts colleges.

Subtract these six, and you still have a lineup that would make some other states envious.

Not bad for a state with what? Three million people?

Bottom line: Every state's educational administrators are gonna tell you that the sky is falling and that they will lose their competitive edge unless more funds and resources are diverted to them immediately. The University of California does that constantly down here. We are regularly told that it can't compete in salaries, star professors are leaving, that the CSU system gets too much funding and they get too little, and all the rest of the Oregon-style whining. I'm sure that people in every state,and every Canadian province for that matter, hear exactly the same thing.

I don't think that it means much and just shrug it off.

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[Dennis Ruhl]

Mediocrity 1. the quality or state of being mediocre

Mediocre 1. neither very good or very bad; ordinary; average 2. not good enough; inferior

I chose mediocre to mean definition 1. ordinary

I didn't write the article, just made a note of the irony.

I am sure that Oregon's education is just fine, probably - how would I phrase that - ordinary.

My province, incidently about the same population as Oregon, probably has an ordinary education system having only 4 underfunded provincially run universities with a few small church run schools. A bright spot is Athabasca University, a provincially run distance ed school, that claims 20,000 or more students around the world.

[Gary Rients]

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl

I chose mediocre to mean definition 1. ordinary

Ordinary in what group? I would certainly rate the University of Oregon well above the average US college or university. I would probably even consider Oregon State to be above average. Maybe they are mediocre or worse in terms of faculty salaries, but I don't think that applies to academic reputation or quality of graduates. In any case, I don't see how even having mediocre but legitimate schools, while passing legislation against unaccredited degrees, would be considered ironic. It's not as though they are trying to prevent people from using a mediocre RA degree in the state.

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[Dennis Ruhl]

Irony 1. a method of humorous or subtly sarcastic expression in which the intended meaning of the words used is the opposite of their usual sense 2. an instance of this 3. a combination of circumstances or a result that is opposite of what might be expected or considered appropriate

I chose the meaning as definition 3 - a combinatio n of circumstances or a result that is opposite of what might be expected.

Circumstances:

a) Oregon tightly regulates use of out of state academic degrees.
b) An Oregon newspaper expresses the opinion that Oregon's education system is less than superior.

The result of a) is the opposite of the result expected in b) ergo irony.

Do I have to type it slower next time.

I did not write the apparently offensive article. I just noted the I - R - O - N - Y.

[Gary Rients]

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl
Do I have to type it slower next time.

I did not write the apparently offensive article. I just noted the I - R - O - N - Y.

Perhaps you do need to type it slower - maybe that way you'll have time to think before submitting an unnecessarily hostile response.

I didn't find the article offensive in least, and in fact I appreciated the link to it, I just don't see any relationship between it and Oregon's legislation regarding unaccredited degrees. No relationship --> no irony. It's not as though Oregon is permitting or encouraging the operation of unaccredited schools within the state while making it illegal to use a degree from such a school outside of the state. It's also not the case that Oregon has mediocre or poor accredited schools and is attempting to prevent the use of degrees from mediocre or poor accredited schools outside of the state.

a) Oregon tightly regulates use of out of state academic degrees.

No, they tightly regulate the use of unaccredited degrees.

b) An Oregon newspaper expresses the opinion that Oregon's education system is less than superior.

So?

The result of a) is the opposite of the result expected in b) ergo irony.

Point b certainly would not lead me to expect anything in regard to point a, and vice-versa, ergo it is not ironic.

[Rich Douglas]

Originally posted by Dennis Ruhl


Oregon tightly regulates use of out of state academic degrees.

No, they don't. They don't have the power to regulate out-of-state schools. They purport to regulate the use of said schools' degrees, and their business transactions with Oregonian customers. However, there is no record of ODA actually taking any action, nor will there be. This is a public relations campaign to highten awareness about unaccredited and unregulated schools and degree mills, nothing more. It's effectiveness can be debated all day long. So can its legality. But as a point of law, it is toothless.

[Bill Grover]

Originally posted by Rich Douglas


No, they don't. They don't have the power to regulate out-of-state schools. They purport to regulate the use of said schools' degrees, and their business transactions with Oregonian customers. However, there is no record of ODA actually taking any action, nor will there be. This is a public relations campaign to highten awareness about unaccredited and unregulated schools and degree mills, nothing more. It's effectiveness can be debated all day long. So can its legality. But as a point of law, it is toothless.

__________________________________________________ _

Rich

I may be wrong but I think recently the ODA was involved in an action against a teacher at some Jr college who listed his Berne PhD.

As far as mediocrity, I think Western Seminary is among religious schools well respected. But perhaps is not among the 10 best, etc.

[John Bear]

Rank of Reed College among 2,000+ liberal arts colleges and universities in number (not per capita) of Rhodes Scholars: 2nd (Williams is 1st)

Timing of Reed among all US schools in having a nuclear reactor on campus for student research: they had the first.

This from a school with fewer than 1,000 students.

John Bear
Reed 1955-58; no degree

[Rich Douglas]

Originally posted by Bill Grover


__________________________________________________ _

Rich

I may be wrong but I think recently the ODA was involved in an action against a teacher at some Jr college who listed his Berne PhD.

Oh, my guess is that if you say it is so , it is. Do you--or anyone else--have the details of this case (and its current status)? It has been supposed by people with greater legal minds than I that the Oregon law would fall, if challenged, on constitutional grounds.

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[Gert Potgieter]

Clackamas Community College. Faculty member refused to remove Berne degree from CV etc, and filed claim with State of Oregon.

Here he is: Dean Darris.

[Gert Potgieter]

Here's an article originally from the Chronicle (3/23/2001) on the case: States Struggle to Regulate Online Colleges That Lack Accreditation.

[Bill Huffman]

I've never been to Oregan. I do admire those people that live up north though for being so brave. If they happen to slip and fall they might not stop until they hit the Mexican border. Whereas being in San Diego, I wouldn't fall very far at all.

[Bill Huffman]

Originally posted by Gert Potgieter
Here's an article originally from the Chronicle (3/23/2001) on the case: States Struggle to Regulate Online Colleges That Lack Accreditation.

Very amusing, a link to the same article just showed up over at a most amusing thread on that KWU degree mill forum.

http://vsu.kw.edu/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001110.html

IIRC one of the fellows claimed that one of the posters was from degreeinfo. Have you been posting over there Gert or is this just a coincidence?

[Rich Douglas]

Originally posted by Gert Potgieter
Here's an article originally from the Chronicle (3/23/2001) on the case: States Struggle to Regulate Online Colleges That Lack Accreditation.

1. The article, undated in that link, appears several years old now.

2. Darris and his employer continue to list his Berne degree, despite the letter from the ODA.

3. My conclusion that the law is there but is toothless appears reasonable and sustained by--not contradicted by--this case.

[Gert Potgieter]

Originally posted by Bill Huffman
... Have you been posting over there Gert or is this just a coincidence?

I have posted on the KW forum, but only as Gert Potgieter. So it's a coincidence that links to the same article were posted on both boards. The one you provided is the original -- I could only locate a copy at collegedegrees.com (Mark Wilson's site).