California Coast University or Pacific Western University(California) - DegreeInfo Distance Learning

brandon · #1 05-22-2002, 07:21 PM

Hi i'm looking to get my BS or BA degree in political science. However I've found it difficult to find a correspondence college that offers this so I'm either going to go with California Coast University's BS in management or Pacific Western University's BS in Public Administration. I'm probably going to go with CalCoast, but i wish they offered a degree more related to politics/public administration. I don't want to go with any RA DL because they are too expensive, and most have really tacky names (Athabasca U?). I can only afford to spend around 2-4 thousand. Which would you recommend out of these three:

California Coast University BS in management
Pacific Western University(California) BS in Public Administration
California Pacific University (B.B.A.) Degree Program

HR PRO · #2 05-22-2002, 07:38 PM

Look at anything but those two, - stay with a RA program
like (all of these have BA/S in Political Science or Public Policy

Charter Oaks Don't Know
Empire State Rated High
Thomas Edison State Rated high
U of So Colorado Don't Know

or even

Excelsior Rated Low - poor
administration/customer service

If I was advising at would be TESC (1), cost - a few thousand

Hope this helps

HR Pro

Ed.D. Pepperdine
MBA Redlands
MA Phoenix
BS Excelsior
AS TESC

brandon · #3 05-22-2002, 07:43 PM

No, i don't want anything RA. It's too expensive. State approved is fine with me. Like i said most of the RA correspondence schools have really awful names, (charter oak state college etc.) not to mention they are all more expensive and will cost around 5-10 thousand to attend which is out of my budget.

HR PRO · #4 05-22-2002, 07:53 PM

But don't send be your resume, and don't put it on your resume.....

HR Pro.

HR PRO · #5 05-22-2002, 07:56 PM

**CORRECTION**

But don't send me your resume, and don't put it on your resume.....

Put your $$$$ in a Ret. account

brandon · #6 05-22-2002, 08:03 PM

Well that's ridiculous. There are plenty of people high in the government and military with degrees listed from california coast university. Congressmen, several people in the Bush Administartion, plus a ton of people with various other high profile positions on Capitol Hill. If you wouldn't hire someone based upon that fine, but i prefer good old fashioned 70's style correspondence learning through the mail.

BillDayson · #7 05-22-2002, 08:43 PM

Why do you want to study political science in the first place, Brandon? Are you just following up an avocational interest? Do you intend to seek employment? If so what kind of employment?

Once you have clarified your interest in political science, what purpose will your study of the subject serve in meeting those ends? Are you looking for some kind of specialist knowledge? Do you want to network with others in the field? Do you want a degree that others out in society will recognize?

Where do you live, Brandon? I don't need your address, but I want your city, state/province and country.

Personally, I think that if you just want knowledge for personal avocational reasons, a non-accredited DL program may work pretty well. But you should also consider the option of visiting a library, reading on your own, and getting essentially the same education for free.

If you want to actually get a degree, and if you want to use that degree in getting public sector employment, then you will need to look closely at the job requirements where you plan to seek work. My feeling is that if you are in the USA, you should probably accept nothing less than DETC.

If you want to run for public office or something, and if you intend to use a degree primarily to impress the public, you should probably be thinking in terms of a prestige degree.

If money is your big issue, you should be looking at local on-campus options, especially at public universities. Community colleges will provide you with the first two years of a degree program, practically for free, courtesy of the taxpayers. Many state college type places offer extensive night programs for working adults.

Finally, I have to say that your rejection of some of the better DL options because you think that their names "sound awful", while blithely limiting yourself to non-accredited programs, is one of the more ridiculous things that I have ever heard here on Degreeinfo.

Are you sure that you aren't just having a little fun with us, trying to jerk our chains?

brandon · #8 05-22-2002, 09:08 PM

I'm from California, but living in tempe, AZ at the moment. I pretty much decided on California Coast University. I just wished they would have had something more geared toward political science. I plan on running for office sometime after i finish my book and get my degree from there. I prefer the "old fashioned" 70's route because i prefer to study independently and complete the courses whenever i want. I work almost 50 hours a week at my job and also run several websites. I have no problem with a degree from California Coast. I'm not looking to become a licensed doctor and operate on people or anything which would require more of "hands-on training"). I agree with your belief in the value of reading books and i have read many. i'm a believer in self education, and a state approved degree will give me whatever i put into it. I have no interest in community college since i already attended it, and the most i could get is an AA degree and still have to deal with the bureacracy. Like i said, there have been plenty of congressman and high ranking government officials with calcoast and pacific western degrees, and if people have a problem with it they can always just vote for the other guy.

Rich Douglas · #9 05-23-2002, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brandon
Well that's ridiculous. There are plenty of people high in the government and military with degrees listed from california coast university. Congressmen, several people in the Bush Administartion, plus a ton of people with various other high profile positions on Capitol Hill. If you wouldn't hire someone based upon that fine, but i prefer good old fashioned 70's style correspondence learning through the mail.

You seem convinced that a California-approved degree is good for you. Fine. Do it. But don't rationalize it, for your points are easily countered.

Cost? Many accredited bachelor's degrees can be had for less than the three unaccredited options you list.

Name? While trite, there are many fine colleges and universities that don't have goofy names, including two of the "Big Three." (Heck, I even like "Excelsior.")

Utility? Please. You might very well be convinced that an unaccredited degree will meet your present and future needs. You might be right. But that isn't the right option for most people. Expect many responses in this forum to reflect that.

Others who hold such degrees? Be careful about cause-and-effect here. Just because some prominent or successful person holds such a degree doesn't mean the degree contributed to it. Nelson Mandela didn't rise to lead a post-Apartheid South Africa on the strength of his UNISA degree.

I'm curious, which accredited degree programs did you reject (and why) in favor of the unaccredited schools you list? It would be interesting--and instructive, I'm sure.

DaveHayden · #10 05-23-2002, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brandon
Well that's ridiculous. There are plenty of people high in the government and military with degrees listed from california coast university. Congressmen, several people in the Bush Administartion, plus a ton of people with various other high profile positions on Capitol Hill. If you wouldn't hire someone based upon that fine, but i prefer good old fashioned 70's style correspondence learning through the mail.

What makes you believe that? What Congressmen have a CCU degree on their resume? The only time I have seen it listed it was by a decorated military officier who went back and replaced it with a Regents degree because of CCU's lack of accreditation. As has been mentioned there is likely no reason to choose a CCU or CPU program over a valid accredited degree. If you don't like the Big Three then there are a number of other choices like Southern Missouri State University, Troy State University, Fort Hays State University, etc, etc. If you do go with an unaccredited school I would never list it on a resume or expect it to be accepted.

Chip · #11 05-23-2002, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brandon
No, i don't want anything RA. It's too expensive. State approved is fine with me. Like i said most of the RA correspondence schools have really awful names, (charter oak state college etc.) not to mention they are all more expensive and will cost around 5-10 thousand to attend which is out of my budget.

Yup, most of the RA correspondence schools have awful names, like Eastern Oregon U., Upper Iowa U., Ohio U., Brigham Young U., Union Institute U., Skidmore College, Regent U., California State U., Walden U., Regis U., or Empire State U., Charter Oak State College, or Thomas Edison State College. (I could go on and list another couple hundred here, but you get the idea)

And while some are more expensive than Cal Coast, others, such as Charter Oak or Edison, are probably *less* expensive, depending on how you go about earning your degree.

If you've got your heart set on an unaccredited degree, far be it from me to tell you not to do it. But, as Rich said, don't try to convince anyone that it's the only, the most sensible, the least expensive, or the best choice for you, because it's not.

While Cal Coast is a legitimate school, the degree is definitely second rate compared to an RA degree, and will be of limited utility. You'll find yourself defending it constantly, and some people will lump Cal Coast in with the many less-than-wonderful and illegal unaccredited schools.

If you're seeking knowledge for personal enrichment, you'll do just as well -- or better -- to pick up the syllabi for the courses you're interested from a local bricks-and-mortar school (or, hell, by emailing the professors of your choice at Harvard) and getting hold of the books used and studying them. You'll learn a heckuva lot more using the reading list from a rigorous RA program than from a Cal Coast curriculum.

If you're going for a degree that will advance your career, you can do almost the same thing, just enroll at Edison or Charter Oak, and exam or portfolio through the courses for which you've studied.

It's really a no-brainer. At the undergrad level there is no sensible reason why a Cal Coast degree is the best choice.

Mike Albrecht · #12 05-23-2002, 11:28 AM

Cal State in state tuition BA/BS = 120 cr.hr @ $55/hr or approximately $6600 for classroom attendance (available on site and remote), for DL add $50 per class or $8600 exclusive of books.

Following schools offor BA in Poli Sci
Bakerfield, Chico, domingues Hills, Fresno, fullerton, Hayward, Long Beach, Los Angeles, Northridge, pomona, (quit looking up).

Cal Coast (last time I checked and current site no longer lists prices) was about $4500 for a BS

Pacific Western = $2950

Of course if you are in Tempe you would look at ASU but they cost about $14000 for a BA in state tuition.

So they "savings" for a California Resident is a maximum of $5600 for a DL degree that is RA, transferrable, in the field that is wanted versus an unaccredited degree that does not fit your needs (poli sci).

Yep, I guess that makes it worth the CCU PWU route(???

)

Rich Douglas · #13 05-23-2002, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Albrecht
Cal State in state tuition BA/BS = 120 cr.hr @ $55/hr or approximately $6600 for classroom attendance (available on site and remote), for DL add $50 per class or $8600 exclusive of books.

Of course, that's from "the ground up." Schools like PWU and CCU cater to people with college credits and/or creditable experiences. Their costs are the same no matter how many credits one enters with. But if one has, say 30-45 credits to complete, one's costs at an RA school come down dramatically. As I and others alluded, this could make the cost of an RA bachelor's less expensive than a non-RA alternative.

defii · #14 05-23-2002, 12:08 PM

My apologies for using the colloquialism "better safe than sorry" as a title for the post. I really could not think of a more appropriate title. I would caution the poster who is determined to pursue an unaccredited degree to understand that very few of us can say with absolute certainty what we will be doing ten years hence.

I "earned" an unaccredited MBA from Southwest University. At the time, I was certain it would suffice. It did -- for a while. But circumstances change quickly. Employers begin to look for degrees from accredited schools. Or, a person may love a subject so much that teaching and/or advanced studies come into the equation.

Look, be safe. Go with a degree that gives you the most versatility. If you change your mind later about your goals, at least an accredited degree with provide you with a wider array of options. I think it is even more important when its an undergraduate degree. That represents the foundation of higher education.

Good luck to you.

John Bear · #15 05-23-2002, 12:09 PM

Three things:

(1) If you ever happen to live, work, or do business in Oregon, it may be relevant to know that the three degrees you mention would make you a criminal in that state, subject to $5,000 fine and six months in prison. Other states may move in this direction.

(2) There are two Pacific Western universities run by the same people from the same address. The California-approved one offers only business degrees. The other (registered in Hawaii) offers all the others.

(3) Catholic-Forum.com says that the patron saint of colleges and universities is the Infant Jesus of Prague. Might be worth praying to this little fellow that the time bomb you'd be planting in your resume doesn't go off.

Public service:

BillDayson · #16 05-23-2002, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chip
If you're seeking knowledge for personal enrichment, you'll do just as well -- or better -- to pick up the syllabi for the courses you're interested from a local bricks-and-mortar school (or, hell, by emailing the professors of your choice at Harvard) and getting hold of the books used and studying them. You'll learn a heckuva lot more using the reading list from a rigorous RA program than from a Cal Coast curriculum.

While I certainly agree with Chip's advice to Brandon, I want to say that I do think that non-accredited schools of the better CA-approved sort do have considerable value for some students.

While it is obviously possible to learn a lot by independent reading, I think that solitary reading can be very lonely and very isolating. And when the subject you are reading requires language skills, familiarity with commentarial traditions and even possibly personal experiential practice as well, learning from others seems to be called for.

Here's the faculty listing of a CA-approved school that I personally like:

http://www.hlu.edu/REL/faculty_rel.htm

I think that a school, accredited or not, does its students a great service if it puts them in contact with people of this sort.

While I don't think that an unaccredited degree from such a school would serve very well for occupational purposes (at least beyond one small religious community), I think that the educational experience probably has great value.

For a handful of students, from certain monks and clerics to middle aged guys like me with serious but avocational interests, this kind of place may actually be *preferrable* to an accredited program.

I don't really think that Brandon falls in that class, though.

BillDayson · #17 05-23-2002, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Douglas
But if one has, say 30-45 credits to complete, one's costs at an RA school come down dramatically. As I and others alluded, this could make the cost of an RA bachelor's less expensive than a non-RA alternative.

I want to second what Rich said.

I have an old CSU Dominguez Hills catalog right here. It tells me that a minimum of 124 units are required for a bachelors degree. Of these, only 30 units must be completed in residence at CSUDH!

The administrative code specifies that a maximum of 70 semester units can be transferred from community college. (None of these can be upper division units, though.) But there's sort of a loophole. While they won't count any more than 70 towards the 124 total required units, you can still take additional community college courses to meet additional lower division course requirements.

You are free to take upper division courses elsewhere in addition to the 70 community college units and then transfer them in, keeping in mind the 30 unit residency requirement. They include "extension, correspondence and USAFI" as transfer eligible.

They will also accept non-collegiate instruction that has been recommended for credit by the American Council on Education (ACE).

They will give you 6 semester units for military service. Just attach a copy of your DD214 to your application.

You can get up to 6 units for getting a three or better on the College Board AP exams.

In addition to the AP exams, there is a CSU English Proficiency Exam that gets you out of some of the English general ed requirements.

CSUDH allows up to 12 units of credit for prior learning, assessed by portfolio.

In addition to all this, CSUDH accepts a wide variety (but not all) CLEP examinations.

Bottom line: Use the mixture of community college, exams and portfolios, DL and transfer credit that best meets your needs, pocket book and learning style. Then do as little as 30 units at CSUDH and walk away with an on-campus CSU diploma in political science.

BTW, the CSUDH BA program in political science has an asterisk next to it, indicating that they offer all the necessaary major courses at night as well as during the day.

If you live somewhere in California besides the LA area, I'm sure that you can do similar things at many of the CSUs.

brandon · #18 05-23-2002, 02:45 PM

A BS degree from calcoast is 3575 not 4500 (just for the record). The only place I've seen a negative connotation with one of their degrees is with the DL fanatics here. As for those prominent in government who hold degrees from calcoast (other than the one already dicussed in other threads):

1."The President has designated Patricia Hill Williams to be Vice Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Inter-American Foundation. She was appointed to the Board of Directors by former President Clinton in 1994. Williams was appointed by President Reagan to his National Advisory Council on Women's Educational Programs and by President Bush to his Presidential Advisory Council on Historically Black Colleges and Universities. She is currently the Vice President for external affairs at the State University of New York at Farmingdale. She is a graduate of SUNY at Old Westbury, received a Master's from New York Institute of Technology and from SUNY Stony Brook and an E.D.D. Degree from California Coast University"

2."Selective Service System
Alfred Rascon, Director, Selective Service System
Began Service: May 22, 2001
Education: California Coast University BA
Career: Military Liaison Officer to the Republic of Panama, United States Army, 1976-1984; Special Agent, Immigration and Naturalization Service, Washington, DC; Intelligence Operations Specialist, Drug Enforcement Agency, Washington, DC; Inspector General, Selective Service System, Arlington, VA, 1996-2001"

3. http://www.dtic.mil/comptroller/bioadolphi.html

4. Perry Atkinson (chairman of the Oregon Republican Party)http://orgop.org/about/chairman.htm
http://www.sos.state.or.us/elections...on/atkinpa.htm

5. 48TH DISTRICT (Pennsylvania State Legislature)

REPUBLICAN
No candidate filed.

DEMOCRATIC
TIMOTHY SOLOBAY
SOLOBAY
Age: 44; Canonsburg
EDUCATION: California Coast University, Santa Ana, Calif., B.S. in management; Washington Hospital School of Radiologic Technology.
OCCUPATION: Full-time legislator.
QUALIFICATIONS: 26 years of dedicated public service in health care, emergency services, civic, professional and social organizations as member and officer. Completing first term as state legislator.

6. Carl Kruger (Dem/Lib)
Age: 51 Occupation: NYS Senate since 1995
Past Offices and Campaigns: Member, Community Board 18
Education: Pacific Western University

7. LIONELL SPRUILL SR.
Democrat, House District 77

Service: 1994 - To Present
Seniority: 51 of 100
Education: Norfolk State University; Pacific Western University

That's just the few i found doing a google search. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure calcoast is the way to go fro what i'm looking for which is mail correspondence rather than "online" based and without time constraints(semesters, quarters) etc..

Dennis Madarang · #19 05-23-2002, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brandon
The only place I've seen a negative connotation with one of their degrees is with the DL fanatics here. As for those prominent in government who hold degrees from calcoast (other than the one already dicussed in other threads

And lots of prominent people in government hold no degree at all. The ones you cited (and yes, they HAVE been already discussed in other threads) would likely have gotten to their stations in life even without.. or in spite of.. their unaccredited degrees. I doubt the degrees (even an RA ones) played much of a role in the lives of the elected officials. And I suspect that Mr. Rascon's appointment had more to do with his Medal of Honor, experience as the SSS Inspector General, Excelsior (RA) degree, and a lifetime of honorable service to the Nation than with his CCU degree-- replaced, incidentally, with one from the Packing Material college.

But if any of those illustrious CCU grads happened to apply for a job with the nation's largest employer, they'd be "shown the door" if the position required a degree. What does this tell you?

Of course, you know this. So, is there a point to this thread, or are you just a big Red Herring fan?

DaveHayden · #20 05-23-2002, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by brandon

1."The President has designated Patricia Hill Williams ...

Note: She has a legitimate degree from SUNY.

2."Selective Service System Alfred Rascon, Director...

Note: This is the gentleman I was speaking of. He is a decorate military officier that went back got a Regents degree because of the lack of accreditation of his previous degree. I gurantee he didn't get this position because of the unaccredited degree.

3. http://www.dtic.mil/comptroller/bioadolphi.html

Note: He holds several legitimate RA degrees from institutions such as University of Washington, Butler University and others. He is a decorated military officier. Again he didn't get this position based on a CCU degree.

4. Perry Atkinson chairman of the Oregon Republican Party...

Note: Mr Atkinson according to his bio has no degree anywhere including CCU. Perhaps it is because the CCU degree is illegal to list in the Great State of Oregon

5. 48TH DISTRICT (Pennsylvania State Legislature) TIMOTHY SOLOBAY...

Note: Solobay is a State Representative who I doubt was elected based on his unrecognized and unaccredited degree. Please note that BOTH of his children are attending RA schools. I guess he has learned the utility of accreditation.

6. and 7. I didnt bother checking out numbers 6 and 7 as they are minor political figures.

If you feel a CCU degree is in your best interest please don't let us disuade you. You are the one who will need to live with it and defend it. Good luck.

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